The Avengers

[osprey_archer]

I have finally seen Avengers! I was worried that I would feel as lukewarmly positive about it as I did about most of the other Marvel movies - I felt many of them were a little too aware of their status as prequels, which made their plots unsatisfying - but I can conclusively say that Avengers is still pretty awesome even if you've been spoiled for basically everything by the internet.

Although the fact that Coulson now has his own post-Avengers TV show kind of undercuts the effect of his death.

Captain America and Black Widow are still my favorites. (Obviously this means that I am way excited about The Winter Soldier.) I was impressed by the subtle way the movie dealt with Captain America's temporal displacement: it's not just a series of gags about his difficulty with technology/pop culture references (how cute was it when he's all "Flying monkeys! I got that one!"), but there's a real sense that he still thinks like a man from the 1940s.

I'm thinking of his comment that there's only one God - not the fact that he believes it, but the fact that he asserts it as common knowledge, as if it's not at all ethnocentric. Also, even more, the fact that when Agent Coulson dies, Cap's the one who asks, "Was he married?"

Obviously Black Widow's scenes have been discussed up and down the internet. I don't have much to add about her scenes specifically, but as a wider comment on Whedon's work - Whedon really likes the whole "feminist judo" schtick, where his female characters use other people's misogynistic underestimation of their abilities to win. It's so overused in Whedon's work - he uses it twice in this one movie, in both of Natasha's interrogation scenes - that it's not only predictable, but also suggests that his heroines can only win because their enemies underestimate them.

I think often Whedon's work is more feminist when he's not trying so hard at it.

Having said all that - it amused me that Natasha has the sensible superhero suit, while Hawkeye is running around wearing the outfit clearly designed to show off his attributes - his magnificent arms, in this case - at the expense of actually protecting him. Oh, Hawkeye. It's hard out there for the eye candy.

Comments

[silverusagi]

I really ended up liking The Avengers and its group of movies. And superhero movies don't usually do it for me. I read one article that compared the movies to the structures you usually get in TV shows, with interconnected stories and lots of character development--things that you normally can't do in a single movie, at least not on that level, but can do in a group of movies.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

Yes, that makes a lot of sense. Especially given the massiveness of Avengers fandom - usually movie fandoms don't get so huge, but the canon here isn't closed yet, so it's like a TV show in that way.

[athenais.livejournal.com]

I loved The Avengers and Captain America is my favorite. Although Loki, I mean, I'm just as susceptible as the next gal to Tom Hiddleston. But the Captain is a great character in this.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

I'm hoping for more about his adjustment to the modern world in The Winter Soldier.

[entwashian.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, drive-by comment, but I really have to address that last thing... a lot of fans agree with you, and I completely don't. There've been a couple big posts on Tumblr about this (which I of course refuted point-by-point), but basically, yeah, Hawkeye's shows more skin, but Black Widow's costume is far more sexual. His costume emphasizes his strength and athletic abilities, while hers emphasizes her hourglass figure and curves, her softness.

Also, ScarJo has discussed in interviews the fact that she had to lube herself up (she calls it the "special sauce") in order to be able to squeeze into that skintight costume.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

Wow, that is a tight costume.

But I don't think the fact that Hawkeye's costume emphasizes his strength means it's not sexualized - I think it reflects the fact that when Hollywood wants men to be sex symbols, it makes them look tough. Like James Bond, who is a sex symbol despite being totally covered by his suit.

Of course, the fact that we as a culture think men are sexy when they look strong and women when they look vulnerable is another issue...

[asakiyume.livejournal.com]

I still haven't seen it! But I enjoy reading discussions of it.

Whedon (of whose stuff I've actually seen very little: a number of Firefly episodes, one episode of Dr. Horrible... that's it) strikes me both from what I've seen and what I've heard as a guy stuck in the beginner's stages of feminism, when everyone else is far, far ahead--so he ends up looking (and.... being) regressive. "OMG LOOK!!! Women are, like, people, and, and, they can do stuff! They can be almost as--no, strike that, they can actually be as good as men. Mind blowing, right? OMG. OMG."

And everyone watching is like, dude. What is your problem with women, already.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

OMG LOOK!!! Women are, like, people, and, and, they can do stuff!

Yes, this. The overexcited tone is right on the money. He just seems so stunned by this realization that he can't see past it to realize that "kickass woman" can become just as much a problematic box as "sweet damsel in distress" or whatever else. Because the problem is not the description, but the existence of the box.

(Although thinking about it more, I may be unfair to Whedon here - no one could describe Kaylee from Firefly as kickass.)

I remember thinking about this when watching Whedon's Much Ado about Nothing. He followed Shakespeare's script - with some cuts, but I don't think he added anything - and the scene where Beatrice rages about her inability to protect her cousin Hero is a much stronger indictment of sexism than much of Whedon's work. Because she can't do anything. Unlike Buffy or River, the narrative can't give her special powers to overcome the fact that she's a) not allowed to challenge Claudio to a duel and b) would lose if she did, because she lacks the intensive fighting training that he surely has.

[carmarthen.livejournal.com]

I am so excited for Winter Soldier, ahhh.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

I am trying not to be too excited because I feel like I appreciate Marvel movies more when I go in with low expectations - but ugh, I am so excited, my good intentions cannot contain it.

[artemis_wandering]

that it's not only predictable, but also suggests that his heroines can only win because their enemies underestimate them.

Eh, I see your point and yet, I think it's true in RL. People DO underestimate women - and thus why not take advantage. I think it's faulty that Loki would underestimate a woman (given he himself takes the form of one) but perhaps its less to do with female and more to do with human in MCU.

I HATED that God line from Steve. I know comics!Steve identifies as Christian but urgh, it rubbed me the wrong way.