Immortality

[osprey_archer]

One of the fruits of the road trip was a discussion of immortality, amusingly punctuated by near-death experiences with semis and red lights that whooshed past like airplanes.

The question of the day: isn’t it definitionally impossible for an immortal being to be killed? All those supposedly immortal vampires, for instance, who are constantly being popped off by others of their kind: shouldn’t they be called semi-mortals instead of immortals, given that they can and do kick the bucket?

Emma responded that semi-mortality sounded ridiculous and no self-respecting god or vampire would ever use it; I replied that this was because vampires and the kinds of gods who die are famous for lying whenever it suits them and/or would make them look more stylish, and the world would benefit from a semi-mortality truth in advertising campaign. What self-respecting teenage girl would think pledging her life to a semi-mortal being was the height of romantic ecstasy?

The spread of semi-mortality would break the back of the whole Twilight mania. For this reason alone it’s worth it.

All salutary social effects aside, I think I won the argument factually too. The dictionary is totally on my side: “immortal” means “exempt from death,” with no silly qualifiers like “unless killed by someone else.”

However, the definition did make me wonder about Captain Jack Harkness, who never stays dead but is definitely not exempt from dying. He might technically meet the qualifications for “immortal,” but he should have his own word. Words should fit properly, like shoes. “Vivamort” or “oscillimortal”—a person who swings between death and life.

Because the world is serendipitous, “oscili-“ is right next to “osculum” (kiss) in my Latin list, and “osculimortal” not be a bad description of Jack, either.

…it’s just too damn bad that there aren’t careers in experimental philology.

Comments

[visualthinker11.livejournal.com]

this entry made me giggle. a lot. glad you're back! (and that you had such funny conversations, if only so i can read about them...) ; )

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

And I haven't even gotten to the matriarchal society conversation yet!

Glad I kept you giggling. :)

[anait.livejournal.com]

What self-respecting teenage girl would think pledging her life to a semi-mortal being was the height of romantic ecstasy?

Hee! That kind of romanticism is all about absolutes and extremes: true love for ever and ever. Bringing up semi-mortality is just raining all over their parade.

There are very few immortals (except in the Who-verse) that are actually immortal, come to think of it. Vampires in 'Buffy' and 'Supernatural' can all be killed. So can Tamora Pierce's Immortals and Ysandir. Maybe 'Immortals' are just pretentious wannabes who aren't invited to all the really divine parties.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

I LIVE to rain on ill-considered parades. It gives me warm fuzzies of evil.

'Immortals' totally = wannabes. They sit around angsting beautifully all the time, like the sad, perpetually teenage losers that they are. They probably rush to the bathrooms during passing periods to reapply gel to their hair spikes and check that their mascara hasn't run.

Admittedly, for someone so set against 'Immortals' I've read a lot of vampire books. :/

Could the gods in Tamora Pierce's books die? I think they might be actual immortals but I can't quite remember.

[anait.livejournal.com]

Could the gods in Tamora Pierce's books die?
Nope, not the pantheon gods, or the animal gods. But the Ysandir and the Immortal hybrids in the Daine books, for sure.

Admittedly, for someone so set against 'Immortals' I've read a lot of vampire books. :/
I've seen a lot of vampire tv. I never buy the vampire-human love thing though. Just... really? The whole immortal true love fantasy is doomed from the beginning, because either the human will grow old and die, or the vampire turns the human into another vampire to stay together, and how is that a good thing? Immortality seems like a sad thing to me. Honestly, who really wants to live forever? Unless you are an actual god, and then you aren't human to begin with-- it's a completely different game.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

I think the tragedy may be part of the draw, but I don't really get it either.

And even beside the tragedy, it bothers me when otherwise reasonable heroines fall for mass murdering heroes. Twilight sidesteps the issue by making Edward a nice vampire, but Buffy/Angel always bothered me because Angel had been, and became again, a completely ruthless psychopath.

[girl-called-sun.livejournal.com]

Maybe, as already mentioned (like Captain Jack and the Doctor) you have to die in order to live forever. If you don't die, you can't live, or some such conundrum.
Absolutes don't - can't - last forever - you have to be flexible. Not romantic, but believable.

*has a million fic ideas she will never write*

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

But--but--does this mean that True Love doesn't last forever? What can be more absolute and infinite than True Love?

The sound you hear is the sound of a hundred thousand teenagers' dreams shattering into dust.

I can understand the argument that death makes life worth living--it does give you a reason to go out and seize the day--and certainly the deaths of other people would be a good reason for an immortal to seize the day, because the immortal wouldn't have infinite time with that person.

But I'm not sure how the impermanent deaths that Jack and the Doctor go through would aid in the cause of living forever, especially since Jack always comes back exactly the same--physically, at least, he is completely inflexible.

Including his coat. His coat apparently shares his immortality.

The whole thing has frightful implications for his relationship with Ianto.

[girl-called-sun.livejournal.com]

Including his coat. His coat apparently shares his immortality.

Maybe the coat is the key? The coat is the god like true immortal, and just needs a quick mouthed pretty to carry it about...In an odd symbiotic relationship.

Maybe Ianto could get a special coat too?

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

"At the corner of Fourth and Time, Bartholomew Bethsaida runs his tailor's shop: bespoke eternity coats, cheap at the price. Only sell Mr. Bethsaida your death, and he will make you a coat as infinite as oblivion."

I'm sure there's a catch in there somewhere. Ianto had better watch his back.

[anait.livejournal.com]

Maybe the coat is the key? The coat is the god like true immortal, and just needs a quick mouthed pretty to carry it about...In an odd symbiotic relationship.

bespoke eternity coats...sell Mr. Bethsaida your death, and he will make you a coat as infinite as oblivion.

What a great idea! There's so many iconic leather jackets on fantasy and sci-fi heroes: full-length black ones on Jack from 'Torchwood,' Spike from 'Buffy' and Aeryn Sun from 'Farscape.' And brown waist-length ones on Mal from 'Firefly' and Dean from 'Supernatural.' It must be the coat that makes the hero.

Story-time plz nao?? Who will write me a fic about an immortal leather coat and the person that it sits on?

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

Bartholomew Bethsaida really does read like the first paragraph in a story, although I have no idea what happens next. Either someone bespeaks a coat, or someone storms into the shop with a malfunctioning coat, or someone wanders into the shop without having the faintest idea what it is.

I wonder if the coats only work if you bespeak them, or if someone could steal a coat. I expect, given the price, that the coats don't work if they're stolen. Assuming its even possible to steal them. Such coats may seek out their masters.

I don't think that was quite what you were aiming at, but now I desperately want my brain to cough up a story to go with this.