osprey_archer: (books)
[personal profile] osprey_archer
When I first read the Narnia series, I didn’t like The Magician’s Nephew or The Last Battle. Upon reread, I learned that I now enjoy The Magician’s Nephew, so I’ve been wondering if I would also find new things to appreciate in The Last Battle. But while there are of course things to appreciate in the book - my God C. S. Lewis can keep a story galloping along! - I still don’t like it.

It’s just so grim. No plucky children appear until the fourth chapter. Instead, we start off with an Ape bullying his donkey friend Puzzle into putting on a lion skin to pretend to be Aslan, and then using the false Aslan to enslave the Talking Beasts of Narnia, forcing them to cut down dryads and send the timber to Calormene, among other travesties.

One of the dryads manages to warn King Tirian, the last king of Narnia, as C. S. Lewis tells us right from the start. Fair play to him: he tells us exactly where this book is going. The dryad dies at Tirian’s feet as her tree is cut down, and Tirian and his unicorn friend Jewel rush off to try to rescue the Talking Animals, for of course they know that this can’t be the real Aslan…

But they fail. Even after they’ve rescued poor Puzzle and start showing everyone, “See? He’s just a donkey in a lion skin, not the real Aslan at all!”, many creatures refuse to believe them. (“Trump supporters,” I sighed. C. S. Lewis is wrong about a lot of things, but he is also really incredibly right about human nature almost always.) The Calormenes conquer Cair Paravel, Tirian and Jewel (joined by Jill and Eustace and a few other companions) attempt to rally the Talking Animals to their side, but only a few join them, and they all die in a heroic last stand…

But it’s fine! They wake up in Aslan’s Country, also known as Heaven.

So I think what Lewis is going for here is eucatastrophe: everything is dark and terrible, and then suddenly there’s a break in the clouds, the light comes down, and the happy ending is all the more transcendent for seeming so impossible just moments before. The climax of The Lord of the Rings, basically.

The problem is that the sense of eucatastrophe here relies on a deep investment in the Christian cosmology, far more than the other Narnia books. The literal-minded reader may otherwise be just a trifle upset that all the Friends of Narnia (except Susan!) just died. (There are many fine essays about The Problem of Susan, so I won’t get into that here, but know that I did indeed notice.) The protagonists we’ve gotten to know and love over the last six books? Killed all at once in a train crash. Yes, yes, they’re in Heaven, but I don’t care about Heaven, dammit! I’m here for Narnia, and Narnia just died too, and bigger better Narnia Heaven doesn’t feel bigger and better than Narnia at all!

I did laugh when Professor Kirke yells, “It’s all in Plato!”, though. “The real world is a mere reflection of true reality” is indeed all in Plato! And I found it nuts there, too.

Date: 2023-06-24 12:51 am (UTC)
sovay: (Rotwang)
From: [personal profile] sovay
and Narnia just died too

As I think I have mentioned, I love the two pages of this book which are the actual apocalypse of Narnia with the brilliantly astronomical image of Time squeezing out the sun like an orange, and otherwise I really hate this book. I knew less about Christianity at the time when I read it first, and knowing more about Christianity since has only made it worse.
Edited Date: 2023-06-24 12:52 am (UTC)

Date: 2023-06-24 01:34 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (nevermore)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
Wow, you know, I think you've absolutely got it right: the problem is that everything good and familiar dies, and BANG it's heaven, but heaven always seems flat and dissatisfying compared to *living*. And I think it just seems extra destroy-ee to have to have Narnia disappear too. What a short-lived world! Three human generations in our world encompass its entire history! And okay, time runs different in the two places, but Narnia doesn't really get a chance to develop slow and leisurely.

Date: 2023-06-24 04:05 am (UTC)
sovay: (Haruspex: Autumn War)
From: [personal profile] sovay
BANG it's heaven, but heaven always seems flat and dissatisfying compared to *living*.

It feels like Lewis' imagination ran out when it came to the ultimate numinous, which on the one hand I understand is a real problem, but on the other he conjured up Bism with like three sentences and the creation of Narnia is gorgeous, so I don't know why he didn't at least try.

Date: 2023-06-24 11:57 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (God)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
I think maybe the secret is in limiting yourself to three sentences? Same problem as Dante has. You go longer, and it's so. damn. fatiguing.

--He did Aslan's country fine when it was momentary. When it was the transformation of old Caspian into young Caspian. When it was a still wave at the end of a sweet sea of lilies. When it was a natural spot at the top of a high, high, high cliff. But when you spend longer there....

Also--a different problem--"Here, have this better replacement Narnia, after I've taken the one you loved away" feels like God to Job, giving him a replacement family. Holy crap, God, don't you understand anything? It's not the concept of family; it's that particular family. It's not the ideal toward which all things lean, it's those flawed, particular things, doing the leaning, that we, also flawed and leaning, want.

Date: 2023-06-25 02:27 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (feathers on the line)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
^_^

Date: 2023-06-24 01:52 pm (UTC)
marginaliana: Buddy the dog carries Bobo the toy (Default)
From: [personal profile] marginaliana
"It's not the concept of family; it's that particular family. It's not the ideal toward which all things lean, it's those flawed, particular things, doing the leaning, that we, also flawed and leaning, want." - incredibly well said.

Date: 2023-06-25 02:25 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (feathers on the line)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
💛 Thanks

(Wow, that ends up looking kind of cold? When really I wanted to signal appreciation! Please feel it as a shy and pleased thank you, not as a cold one!)
Edited Date: 2023-06-25 02:27 am (UTC)

Date: 2023-06-28 02:43 am (UTC)
rachelmanija: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rachelmanija
Yes, that is so beautiful and true.

Date: 2023-06-25 02:09 am (UTC)
asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
You really can't replace in a couple of chapters something you've built up over six books--even if the thing you were trying to replace it with wasn't inherently terrifying when you scratch at it even a little, which is the case with anything wrapped up in notions of eternity.

Date: 2023-06-24 06:43 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Viktor & Mordecai)
From: [personal profile] sovay
When it was a still wave at the end of a sweet sea of lilies.

The water turns to glass and light and you can drink it! The edge of mystery, which is not the same as miracle.

It's not the concept of family; it's that particular family. It's not the ideal toward which all things lean, it's those flawed, particular things, doing the leaning, that we, also flawed and leaning, want.

That is very well said and I also happen to think true.

[edit] The problem of Replacement Narnia is also, for me, one of the places where the Christianity interferes with the story, because I happen to think that the world itself is real and valid and worthy of preserving, not merely a disposable rehearsal for unimaginable immanence that I shouldn't care about dying or losing my loved ones or the planet which is so full of lovely and strange things so long as I get to participate in. It was incomprehensible to me as a child; as an adult it strikes me as irresponsible and scary.
Edited Date: 2023-06-24 07:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2023-06-25 02:23 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (God)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
I entirely agree with your edit. I even think it's crummy theology. But I guess maybe I need to concede that Lewis is better at Christian theology than I am, so maybe it's just a place where I think Christian theology is crummy. To me it seems like the present world **is** the holy thing. It's the thing that's vibrating with song. I suppose this is me suddenly doing an about-face on the Emerald Witch-and-Puddledglum confrontation, but that's because in *this* case what Lewis is presenting us with *isn't* something that beats the real world hollow. A real pebble, a mosquito bite, the taste of warm bread, the sound of cicadas--they are worth infinitely more than "further up and further in."

And I agree: it's scary and irresponsible to give up on what's right here, right now. The *only* way we can know about anything beautiful or good is through what we have in front of us. The only place and way we can learn to love is HERE. The only place and way we can do compassion is HERE. THIS is the only place we for coming to understand and practice any virtue we should care to choose.

Date: 2023-06-25 02:54 am (UTC)
sovay: (Silver: against blue)
From: [personal profile] sovay
A real pebble, a mosquito bite, the taste of warm bread, the sound of cicadas--they are worth infinitely more than "further up and further in."

I don't know that Lewis is better at Christianity than you are.

(If you haven't read Elizabeth Goudge's The Valley of Song (1951), I am sure I have recommended it to you before, but I still think you would like it.)

Actually, the trains-crash-everyone-dies ending reads more like an about-face on Puddleglum's confrontation with the Lady of the Green Kirtle, because Puddleglum isn't advocating an abandonment of reality so much as a refusal to accept that reality has to be as small and sad and meaningless as the Lady of the Green Kirtle is trying to make them believe—or if it does, if there's no way out of the black pit, that it means there's no point in dreaming better. As an argument, it has a lot more in common with Le Guin on escapism (and Tolkien) than with pie in the sky when you die. It's a pushback on nihilism and it's not vague at all. "Further up and further in" is a bigger and better cat.
Edited Date: 2023-06-25 02:57 am (UTC)

Date: 2023-06-25 03:07 am (UTC)
asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
Thank you--yes!! You are right. Further up and further in is the bigger and better cat, and YES, I was just arguing the other day that it's because we can dream better that we make things better. We don't just settle.

You did recommend The Valley of Song to me, and I got as far as buying it! But not yet reading it. But Wakanomori and I are trying to read more this summer. I committed to five books (which seems like a small number, AND YET) but have only chosen four--I should make that my fifth. Thank you for the reminder!

Date: 2023-06-25 02:24 am (UTC)
asakiyume: created by the ninja girl (Default)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
Agreed. TOO SHORT.

Date: 2023-06-24 02:17 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
I remember hating this book so much as a kid I threw it away so it wouldn't be in my box set, lol (greatly upsetting my mother, who had bought that for me). In tone it seems a lot more like the Space Trilogy books.

Date: 2023-06-24 02:59 am (UTC)
phantomtomato: (Default)
From: [personal profile] phantomtomato
Oh, I was looking forward to your review of this one. TLB is the book I attempted to read through this year, and I got as far as the opening events with Jewel and Tirian which you describe so well above, then stopped. The shame of it is that I really adore the relationship between Jewel and Tirian (it’s quite romantic, the way they speak about one another has shades of a Victorian novel in it…), but I’m so frustrated by the story which surrounds them that I can’t enjoy their presence as much as I would like. The scene with the dryad death and the subsequent logging encampment is incredibly depressing. Very much unlike the rest of the series, as you say.

Date: 2023-06-25 02:28 am (UTC)
asakiyume: (squirrel eye star)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
.... sun juice... seems like something they might drink in outer-space Bism....

Date: 2023-06-24 06:05 am (UTC)
philomytha: airplane flying over romantic castle (Default)
From: [personal profile] philomytha
I also loved the 'it's all in Plato' line - though when I actually went and read Plato I discovered I am definitely an Aristotle girl.

There are a lot of things I like about The Last Battle - as you say, Lewis absolutely nails so many bits of human nature, and Jewel and Puzzle are so lovely, and I love the doomed last stand and the dwarves in th stable, but trying to write about fictional heaven is never going to work.

Date: 2023-06-24 07:11 pm (UTC)
sovay: (Rotwang)
From: [personal profile] sovay
I have read a couple 19th century books about fictional heaven which were more successful than this, but they started with the main character's death and spent the whole book exploring heaven, and the whole "exploring an interesting new world" aspect makes it feel more like a portal fantasy.

George MacDonald's Lilith (1895) has the shtick of finding true life in dying, but it also has such a personal, unfiltered, gonzo vision of Christian myth mixed up with midrash that I don't feel insulted by it, it's exactly the kind of flight of id-fueled fancy that the ending of The Last Battle closes down.

Date: 2023-06-24 09:35 am (UTC)
lucymonster: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lucymonster
I was in a similar boat to you: enjoyed Magician’s Nephew more than I remembered, hoped Last Battle would enjoy a similar rehabilitation, it didn’t. It’s just so dark, and so tonally different from the other six books, and the heavenly future that should have been such a comfort felt so flat and lifeless compared to the Narnia we’d come to know and love.

But I did enjoy the Plato reference, lol.

Date: 2023-06-24 01:40 pm (UTC)
littlerhymes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] littlerhymes
Reading this one with you made it easier to bear but otherwise damn what a comedown after the mostly unalloyed enjoyment of all the other books. Every book a banger EXCEPT the end? Come on now.

But overall this was a really fun co-read! It was interesting too because I think it's the first time we've both read the series before? And what a good series (mostly). 💕

Date: 2023-06-24 02:21 pm (UTC)
littlerhymes: (Default)
From: [personal profile] littlerhymes
If I had been in the Inklings - well first of all I would've asked about Santa Claus and Ramandu's daughter's name, but THEN -

OMG how could I forget our beloved Emily!

Date: 2023-06-25 06:38 am (UTC)
summercomfort: (Default)
From: [personal profile] summercomfort
it's funny reading this, because I read the Narnia books before I knew what Christianity was, so even though I don't remember the plot of The Last Battle, I remember liking it because (a) the conflict felt more real than in the other stories because it felt like it was about the real world intruding on a fantasy story in a way that's unsalvageable (as in, by being more grim, it felt more "real" to me in a way that I liked), and (b) the idea that everyone got to to to Real Narnia seemed really cool, because I didn't realize it was supposed to be Heaven or whatever. I truly thought that it just meant everyone was transported to an alternate world where they get to have even better Narnia adventures. Like, sure, it was kind of sudden and I remember being worried that it didn't seem like the characters had a choice in being transported to a new world, but then again, they didn't in a lot of the previous books, either. It's always been "surprise! You're in another world! Some animals are talkig! Have fun!"

Anyways, I wonder how I'd feel about the Narnia books now that I know what Christianity is. :)

Date: 2023-06-25 04:52 pm (UTC)
summercomfort: (Default)
From: [personal profile] summercomfort

haha, I wasn't bothered by the permanence, especially since it was supposed to be better suited to them than the world they left? Like, 10-year-old me was just like, "oh, Susan likes our world better, so she stays in our world, and the other siblings like Narnia better, so they go to Narnia," like, no judgement, it's just personal preference. And tbh, I was really distraught when reading Lion,Witch,Wardrobe where they went back to being kids at the end. I was like "but they'd grown up and come into their power in Narnia! Why force them to go back to the real world and be kids again!" So I was quite glad that at the end of Last Battle everyone who wanted to stay in Narnia got to stay in Narnia, even if the transition was kind of abrupt. Hmm, I wonder how much of my attitude is informed by my own immigration history.

Date: 2023-06-26 06:12 am (UTC)
silverusagi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverusagi
I never liked this book. It's just so depressing. I realize it's not supposed to be, but the whole "everyone's dead!" thing just killed it for me. Plus the destruction of Narnia.

Date: 2023-06-26 11:51 am (UTC)
luzula: a Luzula pilosa, or hairy wood-rush (Default)
From: [personal profile] luzula
What a lovely post and comment discussion. <3

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