Top Five Fictional Female Relationships
Feb. 6th, 2013 12:03 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
osprey_archerNext, up in the Five Things meme: ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
egelantier, who asked about my top five fictional female relationships, which is also a hard one, because there are so many and how can I decide?
I ended up having to leave out so many things! Sara and Ermengarde from A Little Princess, and Mel and Nee from Crown Duel, (two books I should post about someday!), and of course my beloved Lily & Nina from Black Swan, and Jess/Jules from Bend It Like Beckham, and Julie and Maddie (oh, Julie) from Code Name Verity...
But then, if I had listed everyone then probably this post would broken LJ’s word limit.
Anyway! Top five female relationships, from
1. Delysia LaFosse and Miss Pettigrew from Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day. I love stories wherein one zany characters drags another, quieter character (who is secretly loving every minute of it) on a series of adventures, and it’s so rare for both those characters to be female. Bonus points: the story happens in late 1930s London: a beautiful period piece!
2. Ivy and Martha from The Changeling, because they are the most awesome best friends ever. They have all these wonderful imaginative adventures and invent Tree People and try to steal a horse (seriously, what is with me and characters who try to steal horses) and they bring out, really, all that is best in each other: they both (in very different ways) have unsupportive home lives, and their friendship makes up for that.
And also their friendship overcomes so many obstacles: Martha’s family doesn’t quite approve of Ivy because she’s from the wrong side of the freeway, and Ivy’s family keeps moving away so Martha and Ivy don’t see each other for years (and can’t keep in touch because this is pre-email and Ivy’s family moves to much for letters to really work), and ugh this books makes me both so happy and so sad at the same time at the end: it is the perfect, perfect ending, and it’s one of the few books that made me cry as a child.
I need to write a post about this book. I have so many feelings about this book. I try not to reread it too often because it is painful in a way. (I have a similar reaction to The Secret Voice of Gina Zhang.)
3. On a slightly different note: the Bennet sisters in The Lizzie Bennet Diaries. (Indeed, maybe all the Bennet girls, because I love Mary too.) I love the complications of their relationships: there’s a basis of love there, but sometimes that just isn’t enough.
Jane simply loves everyone. Jane doesn’t get talked about as much as the other Bennets, I think because there is simply less to say about nice people; but she is wonderful. Everyone deserves a Jane.
Lizzie and Lydia, on the other hand, have a much more complicated relationship, and I love how they’ve spun this off from canon: Lizzie loves Lydia, but she also deeply disapproves of her and doesn’t much (or hitherto hasn’t much) liked her, as a person; but while Lydia makes fun of Lizzie, I don’t think that (until the Christmas events) she disliked Lizzie in the same way that Lizzie seems to dislike her. This is a specific kind of dislike, with a lot of disapproval and a certain amount of “having fun despite my better judgement because her energy just carries me away.”
And of course once Lydia realized that Lizzie felt that way about her, she switched to loathing Lizzie, and pretty much went in a tailspin because if her sister felt that way about her - how did everyone else feel? And this hard on the heels of her fight with Mary...and while she and Mary are hanging out again, it can’t be the same as it was: there isn’t that basis of absolute trust, and I think Lydia needs that, which makes me worry how she’s going to get through George Wickham’s latest villainy. I think it’s going to break her a little, which may help her grow as a person...but it’s also so sad.
Although recent LBD events have been tough, to me, Lydia & Mary’s fight is still the single most harrowing episode.
4. Phoebe and her mother in Phoebe in Wonderland. I feel this movie in the same place that I feel The Changeling, and I’ve posted about it at least twice; but not, I think, about Phoebe and her mother.
There are lot of relationships between women that are interesting in this movie: Phoebe and her beloved theater teacher; the theater teacher and Phoebe’s mother, Hilary, who only get two scenes together but get a lot out of it; and Hilary and Phoebe’s little sister, who feels neglected in the face of all Phoebe’s problems. (I think what makes this movie such a touchstone to me is that you feel that everyone involved thought deeply about the relationships between everyone in this movie. I also have a post in me about Phoebe’s mother & father, their dual-academic marriage and their approach to child-rearing.)
What I like about Hilary is that she’s very much not perfect, does not have all the answers, and when things start to go wrong for Phoebe, she’s almost undone by fear and confusion, because she loves Phoebe so much and she doesn’t know how to help.
But there’s an unsentimentality about this: Hilary loves Phoebe, and she also likes Phoebe: Phoebe’s charm and imagination and intensity delight her. But at the same time, sometimes Phoebe is simply too much. There’s a scene, which is central to the movie, where Hilary and her husband are having - not a fight - but sorting out their feelings, which are painful and complicated; and Hilary tells him something like, “I’m angry because you’re right, I couldn’t take another child like her.”
There’s a kind of courageous imperfection to the characters in this movie. They don’t know what they’re doing, and it terrifies them, and they don’t know if it will ever get better (there’s a scene where Phoebe asks “Are you always supposed to have hope?” OH PHOEBE MY HEART); but they keep trying.
5. Ashley & Claudia in Claudia and the New Girl. Because they are artists! and friends! and they have discussions about art! and also their subtext level is like 9.5 out of 10. My explication for this grew into an entry all on its own.
egelantier, who asked about my top five fictional female relationships, which is also a hard one, because there are so many and how can I decide? I ended up having to leave out so many things! Sara and Ermengarde from A Little Princess, and Mel and Nee from Crown Duel, (two books I should post about someday!), and of course my beloved Lily & Nina from Black Swan, and Jess/Jules from Bend It Like Beckham, and Julie and Maddie (oh, Julie) from Code Name Verity...
But then, if I had listed everyone then probably this post would broken LJ’s word limit.
Anyway! Top five female relationships, from
1. Delysia LaFosse and Miss Pettigrew from Miss Pettigrew Lives for a Day. I love stories wherein one zany characters drags another, quieter character (who is secretly loving every minute of it) on a series of adventures, and it’s so rare for both those characters to be female. Bonus points: the story happens in late 1930s London: a beautiful period piece!
2. Ivy and Martha from The Changeling, because they are the most awesome best friends ever. They have all these wonderful imaginative adventures and invent Tree People and try to steal a horse (seriously, what is with me and characters who try to steal horses) and they bring out, really, all that is best in each other: they both (in very different ways) have unsupportive home lives, and their friendship makes up for that.
And also their friendship overcomes so many obstacles: Martha’s family doesn’t quite approve of Ivy because she’s from the wrong side of the freeway, and Ivy’s family keeps moving away so Martha and Ivy don’t see each other for years (and can’t keep in touch because this is pre-email and Ivy’s family moves to much for letters to really work), and ugh this books makes me both so happy and so sad at the same time at the end: it is the perfect, perfect ending, and it’s one of the few books that made me cry as a child.
I need to write a post about this book. I have so many feelings about this book. I try not to reread it too often because it is painful in a way. (I have a similar reaction to The Secret Voice of Gina Zhang.)
3. On a slightly different note: the Bennet sisters in The Lizzie Bennet Diaries. (Indeed, maybe all the Bennet girls, because I love Mary too.) I love the complications of their relationships: there’s a basis of love there, but sometimes that just isn’t enough.
Jane simply loves everyone. Jane doesn’t get talked about as much as the other Bennets, I think because there is simply less to say about nice people; but she is wonderful. Everyone deserves a Jane.
Lizzie and Lydia, on the other hand, have a much more complicated relationship, and I love how they’ve spun this off from canon: Lizzie loves Lydia, but she also deeply disapproves of her and doesn’t much (or hitherto hasn’t much) liked her, as a person; but while Lydia makes fun of Lizzie, I don’t think that (until the Christmas events) she disliked Lizzie in the same way that Lizzie seems to dislike her. This is a specific kind of dislike, with a lot of disapproval and a certain amount of “having fun despite my better judgement because her energy just carries me away.”
And of course once Lydia realized that Lizzie felt that way about her, she switched to loathing Lizzie, and pretty much went in a tailspin because if her sister felt that way about her - how did everyone else feel? And this hard on the heels of her fight with Mary...and while she and Mary are hanging out again, it can’t be the same as it was: there isn’t that basis of absolute trust, and I think Lydia needs that, which makes me worry how she’s going to get through George Wickham’s latest villainy. I think it’s going to break her a little, which may help her grow as a person...but it’s also so sad.
Although recent LBD events have been tough, to me, Lydia & Mary’s fight is still the single most harrowing episode.
4. Phoebe and her mother in Phoebe in Wonderland. I feel this movie in the same place that I feel The Changeling, and I’ve posted about it at least twice; but not, I think, about Phoebe and her mother.
There are lot of relationships between women that are interesting in this movie: Phoebe and her beloved theater teacher; the theater teacher and Phoebe’s mother, Hilary, who only get two scenes together but get a lot out of it; and Hilary and Phoebe’s little sister, who feels neglected in the face of all Phoebe’s problems. (I think what makes this movie such a touchstone to me is that you feel that everyone involved thought deeply about the relationships between everyone in this movie. I also have a post in me about Phoebe’s mother & father, their dual-academic marriage and their approach to child-rearing.)
What I like about Hilary is that she’s very much not perfect, does not have all the answers, and when things start to go wrong for Phoebe, she’s almost undone by fear and confusion, because she loves Phoebe so much and she doesn’t know how to help.
But there’s an unsentimentality about this: Hilary loves Phoebe, and she also likes Phoebe: Phoebe’s charm and imagination and intensity delight her. But at the same time, sometimes Phoebe is simply too much. There’s a scene, which is central to the movie, where Hilary and her husband are having - not a fight - but sorting out their feelings, which are painful and complicated; and Hilary tells him something like, “I’m angry because you’re right, I couldn’t take another child like her.”
There’s a kind of courageous imperfection to the characters in this movie. They don’t know what they’re doing, and it terrifies them, and they don’t know if it will ever get better (there’s a scene where Phoebe asks “Are you always supposed to have hope?” OH PHOEBE MY HEART); but they keep trying.
5. Ashley & Claudia in Claudia and the New Girl. Because they are artists! and friends! and they have discussions about art! and also their subtext level is like 9.5 out of 10. My explication for this grew into an entry all on its own.
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no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 05:11 am (UTC)Yes that ending.
I love knowing someone who loves that book as much as I do.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 01:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 05:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 01:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 01:40 pm (UTC)1. Where are they a month after the performance of Swan Lake?
2. Did your impressions of the characters change over time?
3. Have you ever attempted to rec the film to other people?
4. Favorite fic, if you have one?
5. Did Nina imagine the entire sex sequence within the film? (Because intellectual curiosity, oh yes.)
no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 06:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 01:33 pm (UTC)HOWEVER, Mary had been tutoring Lydia for one of her classes, and she was helping so much that Lydia's parents offered to pay her to continue tutoring Lydia, which Mary accepted. But Lydia didn't know about it, so she kept pestering Mary to hang out with her, till finally Mary let it slip that she was being paid to tutor Lydia rather than just doing it out of affection...
And then there was *sadness*.
One of my friends commented that, although Lydia seems like the kind of person who makes friends easily, she always seems to have a hard time keeping them because she's so intense, which I think made it even harder for her. She seems isolated: it's always her sisters she whines into going to Carter's, for instance, not friends.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 12:01 am (UTC)It's true: we don't hear much about Lydia's friends, other than the vague mob that came to her birthday party. She always is bugging her sisters about going to Carter's, and going out with your sisters is the last thing most people do at that age if they have their own friends.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 02:17 pm (UTC)and i agree with you about lbd. i love watching it so much, and it hurts so much!!
no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 09:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 05:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-06 09:18 pm (UTC)But if you have an interest in female friendships (and children's books), Zilpha Keatley Snyder's The Changeling is definitely worth checking out.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 01:25 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 01:53 am (UTC)I basically saw the movie because I saw it had Amy Adams and Lee Pace, and was pleasantly surprised by how superb everything else was too.
no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 05:17 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-02-07 05:51 pm (UTC)