osprey_archer: (Default)
[personal profile] osprey_archer
Before I get into all of The Woman Who Rides Like a Man's problems - which are many and varied and could probably support a chapter in a dissertation thesis - I want to mention a couple of things the book did really well. I have the impression that Pierce did some serious thinking between In the Hand of the Goddess and WWRLaM, and made an effort to counteract some of the problems of the first two books.

First, Alanna finally starts interacting with women in this book, and it's actually handled pretty well. There's a little bit of "Alanna teaching the benighted savages about feminism," but it's not all one-way interaction: Alanna teaches the girls to be shamans, the girls teach Alanna weaving, and Alanna realizes that weaving is actually an important and noble pursuit (and, by extension, that women's work has value).

There's this lovely quote:

"How can I not like other women?" Alanna inquired. "Particularly after knowing Kara and Kourrem and Mari Fahrar and Farda? I don't feel nearly as odd about being female as I did before I came here."

I'm getting increasingly frustrated with books about the One Awesome Girl (and no other girls at all), so it's nice to see Pierce give that a knock on the head by having Alanna meet lots of interesting women.

Second, the disintegration of Jon and Alanna's relationship. Alanna would be a terrible queen, and would moreover be absolutely miserable as a queen. But even if Alanna had the requisite patience and tact for queenship, Jon would be a rotten husband for her. He's high-handed, self-centered, and seems to have trouble with the idea that people (specifically Alanna, but people in general) might have desires contrary to his own. (Tortall is damn lucky that he evolves from the spoiled prince to the elder statesmen of Protector of the Small.)

Jon's mishandling of his relationship with Alanna - "Of course you'll be coming back to Corus with me! Why should I ask you before having your horse saddled?" - is also one of the best depictions of sexism in SotL. Maybe even all the Tortall books, which tend to assign sexism to characters we're supposed to hate; it's much more troubling (and interesting) to see a previously sympathetic character revealing his underlying sexism.

Jon assumes that Alanna will want to marry him immediately and start popping out heirs, never mind that this assumption is contradicted by everything he actually knows about Alanna individually - because Alanna's individual desires are, in his mind, clearly overruled by the fact that she's a girl, and girls all want to get married and have heirs post haste.

Alanna, of course, disagrees, and their liaison goes up in smoke. Alanna takes up with George, who disturbs me more every time I read the Tortall books.

But this is getting rather long, so I'll leave George-your-friendly-local-Mafia-boss and the Voice of the Bazhir for another post.

Date: 2012-05-06 03:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anait.livejournal.com
Before I get into all of The Woman Who Rides Like a Man's problems - which are many and varied and could probably support a chapter in a dissertation thesis

Um, yes! LOL

First, Alanna finally starts interacting with women in this book, and it's actually handled pretty well.

Yes. I really love your commentary about this bit. :)

Jon's mishandling of his relationship with Alanna... is also one of the best depictions of sexism in SotL.

Yes, TP's take-down of Jon in this book is devastating! ;) I've always liked just how thoroughly she subverted the trope that tells girls 'You marry the prince and live Happily Ever After.' Well done! Sometimes you realize that you've been completely misguided, and you end up choosing to be with your best friend instead. ;)

the Tortall books... which tend to assign sexism to characters we're supposed to hate; it's much more troubling (and interesting) to see a previously sympathetic character revealing his underlying sexism.

Or to see a hated sexist character reveal his underlying sympathetic nature. ;) Shades of Grey.

Date: 2012-05-06 08:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] osprey-archer.livejournal.com
I'm not even sure where to start with the Bazhir. I kind of suspect it's all been written before, and much more eloquently than I'll write it, but...the whole Voice of the Tribes concept seems skeevy to start with, before we even get into the questionability of making Jonathan the Voice.

Or to see a hated sexist character reveal his underlying sympathetic nature.

Lord Wyldon FTW! I am so, so looking forward to rereading the Kel books. Lord Wyldon! Kel! Lerant! NEAL!

Date: 2012-05-10 10:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anait.livejournal.com
Please DO write critically about her handling of the Bazhir and giving The Voice of the Tribes to Jon. At one point a few years ago, I was really wishing for meta on this.

I've never read any.

Date: 2012-05-11 12:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] osprey-archer.livejournal.com
Oh, I ran a post across this recently! I'll see if I can find it again so I can give you the link. Something to tide you over while I work on mine. :)

Date: 2012-05-13 12:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] osprey-archer.livejournal.com
Here (http://zodiacal-light.dreamwidth.org/21874.html#cutid1):it's a laundry list of the problematic elements in the handling of race in Tortall more than a specific takedown of the handling of the Bazhir and the Voice (which it mentions, but not in great detail), but still fascinating.

Date: 2012-05-15 11:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] anait.livejournal.com
Thanks! That's extensive!

Date: 2012-05-07 12:17 pm (UTC)
ladyherenya: (Default)
From: [personal profile] ladyherenya
I've been trying to come up with an intelligent response to your posts on Song of the Lioness and haven't really succeeded.

So this is just to say that I've been enjoying them, and also found them kind of challenging. I wouldn't have thought I read the books uncritically, but I've realised my criticisms were more of Alanna than the author...

Date: 2012-05-07 01:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] osprey-archer.livejournal.com
I have this reaction to your posts about school. "That's so interesting and thought-provoking! I...have nothing even slightly intelligent to say about it."

I'm glad you've been enjoying these posts!

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