osprey_archer: (Default)
[personal profile] osprey_archer
In my previous post about The Amber Spyglass, I wrote about the Lord Asriel, Child Killer. The child Lord Asriel killed, Lyra’s friend Roger, is now in the land of the dead, and Lyra and Will are headed to the land of the dead post-haste because Lyra would like to apologize for accidentally causing his death by bringing him to Lord Asriel. (Times Lord Asriel has wanted to apologize to Roger or indeed ever remembered his existence: zero.)

Will would also kind of like to talk to his father, but as usual Lyra’s goals are the ones that actually drive the plot. She’s the protagonist, and although the narrative feints toward the idea of Will as co-protagonist, really he’s just a sidekick. Would I find him more compelling if he had goals of his own that weren’t entirely centered on Lyra? Maybe. (Maybe not.)

But returning to Lyra, who after all is the reason we’re all here. Having come to the land of the dead to apologize to Roger, Lyra realizes that the dead are miserable in this unchanging underground existence, and decides that the thing to do is to cut a doorway into another world to let them out. Roger is the first to go, and he evanesces into the air, “leaving behind such a vivid little burst of happiness that Will was reminded of the bubbles in a glass of champagne.”

As a child I had a deep horror of the idea of death and oblivion, so I simply couldn’t get on with the dead joyfully dissolving into nothingness. And Pullman, like many a didactic writer before him, wants to make absolutely sure that you know not only what is happening but what your emotional attitude toward it ought to be. Mary Malone also witnesses the dead coming out of the underworld and joyfully dissolving. The alethiometer tells the Magisterium alethiometer-reader that the dead are now escaping the land of the dead and dissolving, and this is “the most sweet and desirable end for them.”

Okay, Pullman, I get it! You believe that when we die we dissolve into nothing and this is a GOOD and JOYFUL end that we should WELCOME. You may be right that this is what happens after death, but you CANNOT force me to be joyful about it no matter how many times you repeat that I should.

Having saved the dead from the horrors of eternal life, Lyra and Will emerge into the Republic of Heaven, where the forces of the Authority (God) are attacking Lord Asriel’s rebel fortress. Lyra and Will stumble through the battle searching for their daemons from whom they were separated when they entered the land of the dead (and again, this separation scene is SO powerful, curse you Pullman for being such a good writer).

While they look for their daemons, they accidentally kill the Authority. He is a very old angel who was being carried away from the battle in a crystalline litter when cliff ghasts attacked. Lyra and Will drive off the cliff ghasts and try to help this ancient, creaky, dementia-stricken angel, but when they help him out of his litter, the breeze blows him away.

Meanwhile, in the same world, the Authority’s right hand man (who seems to be the guy actually in charge, given that the Authority’s general mental state) is going mano a mano with Lord Asriel and Mrs. Coulter. They drag him into the abyss.

I’m sure these scenes were both super fun for Pullman to write, and they’re both powerful and memorable set-pieces. But this is a pretty classic example of making the weakest possible strawman out of your opponent’s argument and then punching it to death.

Pullman famously wrote His Dark Materials as a reaction against Narnia, because he so disliked the Christian didacticism of Lewis’s work. Not that he’s against didacticism, mind, he just thinks that Lewis is being didactic in the wrong direction, and he’s going to fix this by being even more didactic in favor of atheism. If he just repeats “Death is dissolution and this is JOYFUL” often enough, everyone will have to agree, right?

(Actually I’m not sure even Pullman fully agrees, because when Lee Scoresby’s ghost dissolves Pullman talks about how his atoms are going to join the atoms of his daemon Hester, which is not how atoms work, but a pretty good approximation of meeting your loved ones in heaven if you don’t believe in heaven.)

Unfortunately for Pullman, this is not how to teach readers a lesson through fiction. The reason Narnia works (to the extent that it does work in the “teaching a lesson” way) is that the stories are so strong. In The Golden Compass, Pullman shows that he can write a children’s fantasy as compelling as Lewis at his best. In The Amber Spyglass he shows that he can be as clunky as Lewis at his worst, as in That Hideous Strength, another work with some great setpieces that is basically spoiled because the author shunts the story aside in favor of venting his animosity toward something he dislikes but doesn’t really understand.

But Lewis has the advantage that all his books are basically standalones, even if they are also part of a series. You can hate That Hideous Strength and still like Out of the Silent Planet, or loathe The Last Battle and blissfully ignore it as you reread The Voyage of the Dawn Treader five hundred times. Pullman’s His Dark Materials, however, doesn’t work like that. It’s one big book that happens to be split into three pieces, and although the first piece is still exquisite, you can only reread it with the knowledge that the subsequent parts won't live up to the beginning.

Date: 2025-10-17 03:19 pm (UTC)
asakiyume: (shaft of light)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
(Actually I’m not sure even Pullman fully agrees, because when Lee Scoresby’s ghost dissolves Pullman talks about how his atoms are going to join the atoms of his daemon Hester, which is not how atoms work, but a pretty good approximation of meeting your loved ones in heaven if you don’t believe in heaven.) LOLOLOLOLOLOL

People just do not do well with the notion of extinction, and WHY SHOULD WE? Life is what we're born into; life is where we exist--why should we want not-life, not-aware... forever? [exception: people who are suffering horribly, continuously. Yes: extinction might be better than that. But even better? existence without suffering.] So philosophies and religions can posit or put forward extinction as the end state--like, say Buddhism initially did. And then ... give it time, and people are positing some blissful alternative all over again (as happened with developments in Buddhism).

Date: 2025-10-17 05:43 pm (UTC)
asakiyume: (hugs and kisses)
From: [personal profile] asakiyume
This last sentence is beautiful like a poem and now I'm feeling all choked up!

Date: 2025-10-17 04:10 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
You believe that when we die we dissolve into nothing and this is a GOOD and JOYFUL end that we should WELCOME. You may be right that this is what happens after death, but you CANNOT force me to be joyful about it no matter how many times you repeat that I should.

It's very similar to the end of Le Guin's The Other Wind (2001) but at least she's less didactic.

Date: 2025-10-17 05:39 pm (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, that's how I remember it too.

Date: 2025-10-18 04:43 am (UTC)
genarti: Knees-down view of woman on tiptoe next to bookshelves (Default)
From: [personal profile] genarti
Heh, whereas I found the dead dissolving joyously into nothingness to be one of the few beautiful bits of the book! I definitely don't think that atoms mixing is an approximation of meeting your loved ones in heaven, though -- the idea of the substance of my body becoming part of the rest of the earth has always been meaningful to me, in a very "we're all just collections of atoms but so is everything else in the universe" way that's sort of the opposite of a soul/consciousness/whatever persisting. (I do also sometimes believe for a little while in the soul persisting, when I really want to feel connected to dead loved ones, but I don't believe in it, if that makes sense.)

All the rest of the stuff around it alternated between clangingly didactic, smug, and strawmanning, though. And the Authority and Metatron stuff just fell absolutely flat for me. And Pullman had made Lord Asriel so successfully villainous -- Roger's death! I didn't comment before but Roger's death!!! his culpability for which is absolutely not really addressed in any way! -- that when the story turned around and Pullman wanted us to root for Asriel as somebody trying, however fanatically, to achieve sympathetic and righteous ends, I simply did not believe it. Making the Authority decrepit and demented and literally crumbling just felt like a testament to the weakness of Pullman's own didactic storytelling, at that point.

Date: 2025-10-20 09:13 pm (UTC)
lobelia321: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lobelia321
Love your musings on yhis.

Date: 2025-10-21 02:44 am (UTC)
silverusagi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] silverusagi
I read these books, which I think I said before, but I really only have strong memories of the first one. It doesn't sound like I'd like the later ones, but as a kid, I wasn't invested enough to be outraged. However.

Okay, Pullman, I get it! You believe that when we die we dissolve into nothing and this is a GOOD and JOYFUL end that we should WELCOME. You may be right that this is what happens after death, but you CANNOT force me to be joyful about it no matter how many times you repeat that I should. Having saved the dead from the horrors of eternal life

I hate this, and this exact concept has ruined endings of other media for me. So I get it.

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