osprey_archer | The Presidential Sorting Hat

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The Presidential Sorting Hat

zodiacal_light commented on my Teddy Roosevelt post that she'd had a conversation about sorting presidents into Hogwarts houses recently. I think this sounds like the MOST FUN EVER, and clearly no serious historical inquiry is complete without Hogwarts houses, so...let the games begin!

Teddy himself, of course, is a Gryffindor. He's obviously clever enough to go into Ravenclaw - in between big game hunting and being president he wrote like twenty books - but he valued courage above all else: his endless paeans to the active life, his love of hunting, his brief stint as a cowboy, during which he citizen-arrested a couple of horse thieves and dragged them quite a ways to the nearest sheriff's office...

Also, when the Spanish-American War broke out, he quit his job to muster a volunteer regiment to invade Cuba. They charged gloriously up San Juan hill. It is such a Gryffindor thing to do.

Other Gryffindors: Andrew Jackson, much as I hate him. (It always bothered me that the Gryffindors are always good in Harry Potter. Courage is an important part of being a good person, but it's not a magical stairway to heaven.) Possibly Grant? I don't know enough about him to decide definitively - I'm going mostly on the fact that he's a general, and they're brave, right? (He's clearly not a Slytherin. No political sense at all.)

However, our other two general presidents, Washington and Eisenhower, I'd both put in Hufflepuff: Washington for his vast sense of duty, and Eisenhower because of his avuncular geniality. They weren't overwhelming clever or brash or cunning, but they were great stabilizing forces, and both very popular in their times. Hufflepuff presidents: surprisingly effective!

(Hufflepuff never really recovers from its presentation in the first Harry Potter book. Slytherin may be evil, but Hufflepuff is the "oh no don't sort me there!" house.)

I'd say Thomas Jefferson as a Ravenclaw: clearly a very bright man, and completely incapable of seeing how his high-falutin ideals might apply to his actual life. This disconnect between thinking and doing seems Ravenclaw to me. I'd put Lincoln here too, although you might be able to claim him - surprisingly enough - for Slytherin, because he was an exceptionally clever politician. But Slytherins generally seem to lack the moral sense that is so central to understanding Lincoln, so he doesn't quite fit. (My dad is a Lincoln buff. It's rubbed off on me.)

And Wilson is so a Ravenclaw, too. I'd like to put him in Slytherin, purely out of spleen, but he clearly doesn't have the cunning God gave a goose so that would work.

And Slytherin? Tricky Dick Nixon, obviously. Otherwise it's hard to tell...it feels like a massive indictment of character to say "This guy! He's a Slytherin! JUST LIKE VOLDEMORT." But if we're including non-presidential founding fathers...Alexander Hamilton. Slytherin all the way.

Comments? Questions? Furious rebuttals? Anyone I totally should have sorted who I missed?

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I LOVE this concept. Little Springtime shares your opinion of Hamilton, whom I'm rather fond of, for rising from an ignoble past by virtue of his smarts (.... although, you know? Yeah, maybe he *is* a Slytherin)

How about Woodrow Wilson? Hufflepuff? Ravenclaw? And FDR? Definitely Gryffindor?

I love sorting random people/characters into Harry Potter Houses. It's just a Good Thing To Do. I think an argument could be made for Nixon being a Ravenclaw because he was incredibly smart and the smart kind of tips into 'I am smarter than these jackasses why aren't they doing what I say?' type of ambition.

Obviously Slytherin makes lots of sense too, but I think the argument could be made.

Also I so agree with Hamilton's placement. The man is without a doubt my favorite Founding Father, but he's such a Slytherin.

John Adams would be a Ravenclaw though.

Oh, HEE. I used to play these Sorting Hat games all the time, but it never occurred to me to sort presidents!

John Adams would be Gryffindor, I think; independence, and damn the torpedos! (Wait, wrong war...) I totally agree on Jefferson as Ravenclaw. Jimmy Carter's a Ravenclaw, too.

Benjamin Franklin is my favorite Slytherin. He was always quick to take whatever chance presented itself and turn it to his advantage however he could. I mean, a GOOD Slytherin. I do think that they could have moral sense; I think their core qualities are craftiness and a strong self-interest. Perhaps Reagan as a Slytherin?

Ford was a Hufflepuff. Ditto Bush junior.

Thinking about the presidents in my lifetime...
Gerald Ford: Hufflepuff, no question. Surrounded by Slytherins.
Jimmy Carter: Difficult, actually, because he could have been in any of the houses but Slytherin; I suppose I would put him in Hufflepuff as well. I suspect that's where he would sort himself.
Ronald Reagan: Slytherin. Holy crap. Made a career of looking like a Gryffindor.
George H W Bush: Ravenclaw. Scary Ravenclaw.
Bill Clinton: Also Slytherin. One of my favorite Slytherins, maybe, but I've got to go with my instincts, not my partisan instincts.
George W Bush: Hufflepuff. Surrounded by Slytherins. Mostly the same Slytherins as Ford.
Barack Obama: Ravenclaw.

I don't think we've had a Gryffindor in high office in a long time... Kennedy? You could make a case for Slytherin, too, I suppose. Truman? Truman could have been a Gryffindor or a Ravenclaw...

Hamilton's rags to riches story is inspiring, but also totally prototypically Slytherin. He also got up to some kind of shady dealings later on...

I sorted Wilson as a Ravenclaw, because he was so bright (if stupidly pig-headed sometimes). I think if he was a Hufflepuff he would be more interested in being liked, which he didn't really seem to care about. He enjoyed being hailed as a kind of messiah with a brave new plan for the world order, but that's not the same as being liked.

FDR, I'm not sure. He was something of a chameleon, so you could make a case for almost anything but Ravenclaw. (Not that he wasn't bright, but I don't get the impression that he prized intelligence above all else, which seems to me an important Ravenclaw attribute.)

He was also extremely personable, so possibly Hufflepuff. (However, Truman said that when you got to know him you realized that FDR's geniality wasn't backed by real personal warmth, so maybe not.) Between that coldness and his clear political skill, you could go with Slytherin; but at the same time, he was a gutsy trailblazer, with some of that Gryffindor rashness, so Gryffindor might work as well...

I think, as with Harry, it would really come down to what FDR demanded of the Sorting Hat.

Yes, this is true about Nixon. I would still go with Slytherin because I think the will to power was stronger in him even than his pride in his intelligence, but both are important parts of his character.

Hmm, I don't know as much about John Adams. My main impression of him is from the musical 1776, where he's kind of a brainiac Gryffindor - like an even more socially inept Hermione - have you seen this movie? It's kind of ace. There's a song where Adams refuses to write the Declaration of Independence because "if I'm the one to do it, they'll run their quill pens through it, I'm obnoxious and disliked, you know that sir."

Um, but obviously that's a musical and not real history.

What do you think Madison would be?

I agree about John Adams, although my agreement is based entirely on his portrayal in 1776, where he's totally brash and disliked by everyone, but doesn't give a damn, because INDEPENDENCE DAMN IT. THAT'S MORE IMPORTANT THAN MERE SOCIAL SUCCESS. Hearts in my eyes.

I think Slytherins can have moral sense (despite the fact that they never are portrayed that way in canon. Even Snape is apparently acting entirely on a high school crush, not an actual moral realization that Voldemort is evil. Whatever, canon is made to be ignored.) But they are, perhaps, less likely to have it as a central aspect of character than the other types? It fits all right with bravery or intelligence or a desire to be liked/dutiful (I find it hard to get a handle on the core of Hufflepuff identity), but it's hard to reconcile with burning ambition.

And I agree about Bush junior.

I think Carter was a Ravenclaw. He was a nuclear engineer, after all, and more interested in solving problems intellectually than thinking about their global ramifications.

I totally agree with you on Ford, Reagan, both Bushes, and argh, Clinton as well. I was thinking he was Gryffindor, but no, I agree with you, Slytherin.

I really don't know where I'd sort Obama!

I not only saw 1776 (in live theater multiple times as well as the movie) but also the John Adams miniseries, so I have lots of reasons! I love 1776 with a PASSION. Adams, DEAR Mr. Adams. ♥

That Ronald Reagan: he was an actor, after all.

The problem with sorting Kennedy is that it's sometimes hard to know what was him and what was Papa Kennedy, who was a Slytherin all the way, and not one of the nice kinds.

I'd put Obama in Ravenclaw too: he's not only very bright, but also very obvious about it, despite the fact that it clearly alienates some people.

I also tend to associate idealism with Ravenclaw, simply because there's no where else it would fit. The Slytherins would have no interest, and the Hufflepuffs seem too feet-on-the-ground to go in for that. The Gryffindors might go in for it, but Hermione seems to be the only one who does, and everyone else thinks it's a bit ridiculous really.

You could also make an argument for Slytherin, perhaps, but I think that's an easy argument to make for really any of the modern presidents. You just don't end up in high office without a burning flame of ambition these days. But the game's no fun if everyone's a Slytherin, you know?

YES 1776!

I should do another one of these posts about the Founding Fathers, clearly. Endless amusement!

More recent presidents:
Obama: Gryffindor. The charisma, the courage, the grace--yeah. Whatever else anyone says about him, he's a Gryffindor.

Bush GW: much as I'd like to put him in Slitherin, he's just not smart enough. I'd have to put him in Hufflepuff.

Clinton: Ravenclaw. The man might not be able to keep it in his pants, but he's brilliant.

Bush GH: Slytherin, without a doubt. Man's as slick as a greased weasle.

Regan: Slytherin, but surprisingly, he'd be more along the lines of Horace Slughorn than the really greasy baddies.

Carter: Egads! Hufflepuff all the way!

Ford: I call Hufflepuff as a default, though he could go into Gryffindor as a default too.

Nixon: you called it! Slytherin.

Johnson: Ravenclaw. He was a downhome boy, but brilliant. He also knew when to call it quits!

Kennedy: Gryffindor (though you could make a good case for Slytherin too.)

Johnson, a Ravenclaw? Not that he wasn't smart, mind you, but he's such a consummate politician, I would absolutely call him a Slytherin. One of the good Slytherins, but a Slytherin nonetheless.

I'd agree with that. I think I was just getting a little disheartened that I put so many American presidents in Slytherin!

He was Gryffinclawish, for sure, but I'd definitely go Gryffindor over Ravenclaw. I used to have a JA Gryff icon! A lot of both his political successes AND failures can be pretty quickly attributed to the fact that he would say "fuck this, I'm doing what I think is right". He was brilliant, sure, but he didn't tend to think being smart was enough to earn respect -- he respected people who Did The Right Thing or showed nobility or courage. It made him great for advocating Independency, but kind of a crap diplomat, and in the end made him unelectable. And I think if you look at his most shining moments (which from what I can see in his letters, were the accomplishments he was also proud of), they're (a) unpopularly representing the Boston Massacre defendants, (b) doggedly insisting on independence, and (c) avoiding war with France when "his" party was clamoring for it. Also, I suppose, the writing of the Massachusetts Constitution. Contrast with his friend/rival/friend Th Jefferson (definitely Ravenclaw no question), who requested that his tombstone list him as the author of a religious freedom resolution, author of the Declaration, and founder of UVA.

Madison is a tough sort but I think I've typically put him in Hufflepuff. He was very "behind the scenes" for quite some time, working really really hard to put together the R-D platform while giving Jefferson "party leader" credit. He was highly practical and methodical, and I never quite got the same sense of ambition from him as I did of ... everyone else.

I can agree on Washington as Hufflepuff though I think I used to put him with Slytherin -- though he was always very Slytherpuff. It depends whether you think his "oh no I don't want to govern" was genuine or just really really really well-played. But he was HIGHLY concerned with reputation and appearance and propriety and did little subtle things to establish himself (like wearing his old uniform to Congress before being appointed General, or knowing how to stay above the fray) that make me able to believe that it was the latter.

I agree with all of these things. Maybe some Gryffpuffishness with W. His dad, though, I'd say Slytherin probably. Or Ravenclaw? Slytherclaw. OPPOSITES.

Edited 2012-09-01 13:06 (UTC)

From what I know of Jack Kennedy's earlier life, he would've been a Claw. His older brother was supposed to be ~the President~, and he was a sickly kid who took to history and kind of wanted to just be left to his books (though he was a Kennedy so he had the requisite competitive spirit etcetery). What we see of him in the Senate/Presidency is him trying to take on a role that his Slythery dad put on, but his first tactic as President was the "best and brightest" -- i.e., "let me surround myself by my brilliant friends". That SCREAMS Ravenclaw to me, because you see who he respected and trusted. I think Robert was more the Gryffindor of the bunch, very crusadery. Oh God I have an icon of him, too. *uses all the icons*

Edited 2012-09-01 13:20 (UTC)

I'd do Obama in Ravenclaw as well.

BUT I see idealism as a very Gryffindor trait that Claws /can/ share. Sure, Hermione's the only one that goes on little strikes and protests and elf rights, but she was the only one in the class, and she was a Gryffindor. ...if that makes sense? And I think idealism tends to go more hand-in-hand with chivalry, courage, doing what's right, over intelligence and wit and learning. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the idealists are typically Gryffinclaws, because the combo makes for someone barreling forward for an intellectual ideal more likely.

Then again, I don't think Obama's much of an idealist.

But he does - or at least did - talk the talk of idealism really well, and while a Slytherin would probably try that if they saw the possibility of political gain, I think their basic insincerity would come through. I mean, just imagine Richard Nixon giving an idealistic speech about hope, joy, and world peace. He'd probably gag on his tongue halfway through.

Hmm. I think idealism in the Hogwarts houses is something I need to think more about. It doesn't seem to be something JKR was really interested in - Hermione's crusades are pretty much played for laughs - so there's not much to work with.

Maybe separating the Gryffindors & Ravenclaws is part of an underhanded scheme on the part of the Hogwarts founders to ensure that idealism never picks up steam and thus preserve the status quo, because I think idealism is a very Gryffinclaw trait - it requires both courage and intellect - but the way the houses are set up, no one socializes with people outside their house too much.

I think you should write a post Sorting the founding fathers! So many interesting things to consider!

Washington is a tricky case. I think his "I don't want to govern" schtick must have been at least partly genuine, because he did step down in the end, so for that reason I'd say Hufflepuff. Power was never his highest aim, as it would be if he was Slytherin, though he certainly didn't mind having it handed to him on a silver platter.

Definitely not Gryffindor, though. He was brave, but not at all foolhardy (not that Gryffindors have to be foolhardy, but it seems to be one of their common failure modes), and he doesn't seem to thirst for glory as most Gryffindors do.

I have the impression that Joe Kennedy wanted his children to be Slytherins who act like Gryffindors - to seem honest and brave and full of competitive vigor, but be willing to cheat if necessary to win.

It's amazing those kids turned out as well as they did.

And I think you have a good point about JFK. "The best and the brightest" is SUCH a Ravenclaw formulation.

Would Ted Kennedy be a Hufflepuff? Or was he Gryffindor too?

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The Presidential Sorting Hat

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John Adams superfan here

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Re: John Adams superfan here

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